Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy
> ... give the process a chance to work rather than trying to solve it your way
This is certainly a valid point. I've been giving it a chance to work for nearly 4 years now, and my wife has done relatively little towards dealing with her problems. The first two years of her depression were spent with her in absolute denial of it. I understand that things take time, but the waiting will eat up the remaining years I have of this one life if there isn't any progress. This is why I'm trying to take an active role rather than continuing to wait; The waiting accomplished nothing because she did not seek to walk, let alone run. It was not until I convinced her to read Feeling Good and practice some self-care early this year that there has been any significant progress. The regular arguments are an improvement over her denial and withdrawal of years prior; At least now she is willing to engage. My hope is that she can learn to engage effectively before the ineffective engagements destroy the relationship entirely.
I'm a little puzzled by your declaration that I am:
> determined to steamroll over your wife's emotions in favor of "rationality."
I thought that I had made it clear that her emotions are of importance when I stated that
> Ideally, when my wife feels wronged, we would have a rational discussion about what we each perceived, how that made us feel, come to a mutual understanding of the situation and each others' feelings, and seek a win/win/win resolution.
(emphasis added above). Rereading it, perhaps I was not as clear as I had hoped. Her emotions are absolutely NOT invalid. Ultimately, they're kind of all that really matters.
> you're not going to get anywhere by failing to acknowledge she's upset and working within that reality, instead of demanding that she handle everything by parliamentary debate standards.
This is very true. I do acknowledge that she is upset and I am trying to work within that reality, which is why I'm trying to find a way for her to learn to express her emotions effectively. I am by no means "demanding that she handle everything by parliamentary debate standards", but I do expect a minimum level of effective back-and-forth that abides by some of the rules of logic. I'm talking simple things, like avoiding self-contradiction and giving the benefit of the doubt to a degree. My "Did you feed the cats today?" example illustrates the lack of the benefit of the doubt that is frequently encountered. I have no idea how to ask that question, and many others, without it immediately becoming an argument wherein I am expected to prove that I was not attacking her. In these cases, I attempt to acknowledge that she was upset, but I don't know what to do other than express "I'm not attacking you" and ask her how else I can ask her such a question; This almost invariably results in her responding with something like "Just leave me alone I can feed my own damned cats", which doesn't really address either the original issue or the new one. This got a little off topic, what I'm trying to say is that the standards that I'm holding her to are not absurdly high, and they do take into account her emotional state. They are just the minimum required for simple interactions to not quickly turn into hostility. She is not meeting this minimum, which makes even simple interactions nearly impossible.
Hey there, Feeling Good by Dr. Burns is a pretty solid book regarding CBT. It has a lot of exercises in it you can do to help yourself as well as a lot of information on emotional awareness. I have this book. It helps me deal with anxiety and depression.
Have you tried this book? This book was instrumental in me getting off psychotropic drugs and all their damned side effects.
It's been in print for over twenty years, and I have given it as a gift a few times. It's probably available at the local library.
This sounds all wrong to me, and obviously will be very stressful for you. You need to find a good hospital / doctor and get yourself diagnosed right. And only then can you consider the right treatment for what ails you (I know this must be obvious to you, but I want to emphasise it).
Depending on what you suffer from, life long medications might not even be required (though will be helpful during therapy). For example, depression and OCD can be successfully treated with therapy.
While I am averse to recommending self-help without knowing what you suffer from, I highly recommend that you read "Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy" by Dr. David Burns ( https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0380810336/ref=dbs_a_def_r... ). The author is a real doctor and a trained Psychiatrist and explains how cognitive therapy can be effectively used to treat depressions and anxiety. And he also explains how anti-depressants works technically (you can skip that chapter if you find it too technical). It is well written and everything is explained in an easy to understand manner.
Eu já usei para ansiedade, mas achei que o efeito foi mais placebo. Se houve alguma mudança foi bem pequena. Para depressão não funciona pois esse não é o propósito desse remédio.
A melhor coisa que eu fiz para combater ansiedade e depressão foi ler esse livro: Feeling Good: The New Mood Therapy , que é relativamente antigo, mas que ensina técnicas usadas na terapia cognitiva e é mais focado para depressão. Eu gostei muito, venho usando vários dos métodos e as mudanças são perceptíveis. Vale destacar que o meu problema é mais ansiedade do que depressão, mas também funciona de certo modo para esses casos.
Oh yes. I was also recommended to read this book, where CBT techniques are covered. https://toptalkedbooks.com/amzn/0380810336
INTP/ENTP "spiritual person" here. Your routine and motivation is not the root issue. The self-hate is the root issue. The way you view yourself and how you relate to yourself (and by extension, the world) is very very dysfunctional, and I guarantee it's fucking up your life in more ways than one.
The negative self-talk is not reality, not objective, and not who you really are. The voice in your head is not only wrong and destructive, it's not even you.
You have a disconnect between different parts of yourself. You hate being "grounded" because when you're in that state, your ego isn't in charge, and you're forced to look at everything inside you you've been fighting. Learn to sit with that pain and not fight it... just let it happen, and watch it swell and then recede. This is, in essence, mindfulness meditation.
Try reading some of these, based on what stands out to you. They are all helpful.
The Power of Now --A book about the true nature of self and reality. Heavy Eastern influence. This book has influenced me the most out of the list, and maybe even altered the course of my life.
Radical Acceptance --A Buddhist book about loving yourself fully and completely. You are worth it!
12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos --A book by a brilliant man about how to live in a world defined by pain and suffering. Heavy Jungian influence. Quotes and references the Bible a lot, but from a Jungian/Campbellian perspective. Occasionally questionable politics.
Iron John --A sort of esoteric book filled with poetry and fairy tales about how to be a man. Heavy Jung/Campbell influence.
The Enchiridion by Epictetus --This is one of the best introductions to Stoicism, and it's free. Written circa 125 CE.
Feeling Good --CBT book clinically shown to be as effective as antidepressants. Your post is filled with things this book addresses directly. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED
The Happiness Trap --A book about ACT, which is similar to CBT with more mindfulness. Basically CBT tries to get rid of/replace the distorted images of yourself and the world, and ACT tries instead to see them for what they really are, which are meaningless ramblings of an organ using evolved mechanisms to protect its host, and as such are safely ignored.
Tl;dr: Learn to be kind to yourself, love yourself, and accept yourself just as you are right now, flaws and all.
@ OP: Hi. Let yourself up. You're human. Means you're one of us. And just in case anyone's not yet seen it, here's the reason we're all here, I'll bet over 98% of alkys have this genetic panel. It's an open secret among certain western societies that this runs in bloodlines, and this proves it.
OP, self-recrimination is bootless and will only slow you down. You've had the necessary education on the lying lover that booze is..."just one, it'll be alright..." you can regard this most recent incident as part of the cost of your education. Which is really what it is.
So, get yourself to meetings daily, depending on your schedule. Everyone's circumstances, support group, assets, etc, are different. All you need is a determination that booze is out of your life.
Also, one really helpful self-help book. Oh, don't get me wrong, I despise most of the genre. I find them all to be the long form of "first, get really, really lucky,...or alternately, "First, pull yourself up by the hair".
This one's different. If you can honestly answer, on a scale of one to five, a series of self-evaluation questions honestly and apply the results correctly, you can change your world in an evening No BS. It happened to me. By the time I had finished the first chapter of this book ~50 pp., I felt lighter, like in the cliche. It was weird but true. Dr. Burns gives you the tools to stop self-destructive thought patterns...and by extension, self-destructive actions. It's really quite remarkable.
So take a deep breath, forgive yourself a mistake, and make a new plan. It's not how many times you fall. It's how many times you get up, determined to do better.
Feeling Good by David Burns. Really can't go wrong giving it a shot if you are feeling depressed or suffering through another mental illness that CBT has been shown to respond too.
It's definitely helped me, although I still deal anhedonia and other depressive symptoms. It doesn't control my life anymore though.
I would recommend a method used in Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT), as described in this fantastic book . The goal is to recognize the distortions behind the negative thoughts you're telling yourself:
Write down three columns on a piece of paper: Automatic Thoughts, Distortions, and Rational Response.
1) When you have one of these negative thoughts (around self image or anything else), write it down in the Automatic Thought column.
2) Review the distortions above, and note any that apply in the Distortions column
3) Knowing that what you're telling yourself is distorted, what is a more rational response to this thought?
Automatic Thought: I got rejected - I'm worthless and ugly and nobody will ever love me
Distortions and Rational Responses:
- Fortune Telling: How do I know nobody will ever love me?
- All or Nothing Thinking: Just because I got rejected doesn't mean I'm worthless - that's way too extreme
- Jumping to Conclusions: Maybe getting rejected has a lot more to do with them than it does about me - I don't know what's going through their head
- Discounting the Positive: I put myself out there and should be awfully proud of myself for doing so
- Catastrophizing: That's a very extreme response to getting rejected - people get rejected all the time, and that's totally okay. It doesn't mean my world is over!
This approach has been extremely helpful for me in just a short period of time - by identifying these thoughts when they occur and working through the distortions I tell myself, it's become easier for me to catch these negative automatic thoughts and replace them with rational responses, which makes the negative thoughts fewer and farther between.
A key point is to write out this exercise - not just think through it. It's just like working out, and you need those intentional repetitions to make progress.