12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos

Author: Jordan B. Peterson
This Month Reddit 16


by randoogle_   2018-11-10

INTP/ENTP "spiritual person" here. Your routine and motivation is not the root issue. The self-hate is the root issue. The way you view yourself and how you relate to yourself (and by extension, the world) is very very dysfunctional, and I guarantee it's fucking up your life in more ways than one.

The negative self-talk is not reality, not objective, and not who you really are. The voice in your head is not only wrong and destructive, it's not even you.

You have a disconnect between different parts of yourself. You hate being "grounded" because when you're in that state, your ego isn't in charge, and you're forced to look at everything inside you you've been fighting. Learn to sit with that pain and not fight it... just let it happen, and watch it swell and then recede. This is, in essence, mindfulness meditation.

Try reading some of these, based on what stands out to you. They are all helpful.

  • The Power of Now --A book about the true nature of self and reality. Heavy Eastern influence. This book has influenced me the most out of the list, and maybe even altered the course of my life.

  • Radical Acceptance --A Buddhist book about loving yourself fully and completely. You are worth it!

  • 12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos --A book by a brilliant man about how to live in a world defined by pain and suffering. Heavy Jungian influence. Quotes and references the Bible a lot, but from a Jungian/Campbellian perspective. Occasionally questionable politics.

  • Iron John --A sort of esoteric book filled with poetry and fairy tales about how to be a man. Heavy Jung/Campbell influence.

  • The Enchiridion by Epictetus --This is one of the best introductions to Stoicism, and it's free. Written circa 125 CE.

  • Feeling Good --CBT book clinically shown to be as effective as antidepressants. Your post is filled with things this book addresses directly. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED

  • The Happiness Trap --A book about ACT, which is similar to CBT with more mindfulness. Basically CBT tries to get rid of/replace the distorted images of yourself and the world, and ACT tries instead to see them for what they really are, which are meaningless ramblings of an organ using evolved mechanisms to protect its host, and as such are safely ignored.

Tl;dr: Learn to be kind to yourself, love yourself, and accept yourself just as you are right now, flaws and all.

by z2727   2018-11-10

Read this book .

by justplainmark   2018-11-10

Hi there! Thanks for taking the time to ask honest questions and start conversation. It benefits everyone when we’re able to discuss openly without the vitriol and condescension often found in other places online.

I want to start by stating that I don’t consider /r/JordanPeterson to be a right wing sub. I consider myself fairly left, though more of a centrist than most of my friends. Example: I voted for Hillary in the last election, have mixed thoughts on gun control, dislike the identity politics that have lately become more prevalent on the internet/campuses lately, am pro-choice, and have been openly gay for about 12 years now. I’m more interested in the message that Jordan Peterson promotes than the politics sometimes discussed here. Jordan Peterson all types, so you sometimes get that "lol leftist cucks" garbage every now and then but it's not the spirit of the sub as a whole.

That said, let me try to answer your questions as honestly as I can:

Question #1

I don’t consider universities to be dominated by radical leftists. I consider universities to be places where people can openly discuss their views, learn new ideas, and have their ideas challenged in environments that encourage growth and understanding (and based on your tone and style, I feel we agree on this). However, I disagree with your equating departments like economics, engineering, and law with social sciences like gender studies or social justice largely because the approach to the ideology is very, very different. My understanding is that the objection to social sciences doesn’t stem from the fact that they’re more liberal/left, but that they are more interested in silencing and shaming people who disagree with them than other typical college departments.

Let me give you an example. Imagine a context where a left leaning economics student disagreed with a professor’s take on financial policy, or a visiting speaker’s approach to the foreign exchange market. An objection voiced in class, office hours, or during the Q&A portion of a speaking event would likely spark meaningful conversation where multiple viewpoints are presented. Outside of people rolling their eyes at each other in class, it’s unlikely that fellow economics majors would call for professor resignations, disrupt a speaking event, or openly shame each other for disagreeing.

Generally speaking, Engineering, Business, Economics, and Law majors would not sabotage a speaking event they disagree with, or vandalize campus property in an attempt to disrupt an idea they didn’t like, or barricade a door and imply physical harm to their opponents.

My point is this: the objection is not that the social sciences are left; the objection is that generally speaking, they are more likely to shut down an opponent than listen to them, which is the start of fascism (this is not hyperbole - the forcible repression of opposition is literally one of the tenants of fascism).

Remember above when I said that universities are places where people can openly discuss their views, learn new ideas, and have their ideas challenged in environments that encourage growth and understanding? Social sciences often (not always) stand in stark contrast to this by presenting their ideas with the caveat “agree with me, or else.”

You wouldn’t see this behavior from Engineering, Business, Economics, and Law majors.

Question 2

I mostly answered this in my answer to your first question, but my main objection is that the majority of social science classes actively discourage debate. The links I provided above are a small sample, and I could easily put together a larger list.

Again, you would not see this behavior in Engineering, Business, Economics, and Law classes.

Question 3 >You always seem to be championing traditional social hierarchies/relationships and also the primacy of the individual. But traditional social arrangements placed women in a socially subservient position with greatly diminished options for individual fulfillment relative to males. How do you reconcile this contradiction?

I haven’t seen anyone in this sub champion traditional social hierarchies, nor do I remember any comments from Jordan Peterson in his recent book suggest this. JP talks a great deal about how it’s the responsibility of the individual for self-improvement, but I’ve never heard him suggest that social repression of women was women’s fault. Assuming I haven’t misunderstood your question, is it possible you’ve mis-inferred this somewhere?

>Do you really presume to tell women they'd have more individual fulfillment if they gave up their autonomy and submitted to a backwards social relationship?

God, no. I have yet to see any posts from this sub or concepts presented by JP that would imply women would be happier in a subservient social role. In fact there are plenty of places in his last book that would say otherwise (that subservience isn’t a useful trait). Where are you getting this?

>Likewise with racial minorities.

Nope. No one is suggesting this.

Question 4

>You're always advancing this notion that leftists are gonna impose totalitarian oppression on society any day.

Are we? Where?

>Do you really think that rad-fems are at the cusp of seizing absolute power?

No, but it’s disheartening to see radical feminists discourage conversation, or assume that disagreeing with them is some moral sin that makes me a monster.

Question 5

I disagree with most Evangelicals I meet, and I do consider many of the practices of the religious right to be totalitarian.

Question 6

I have a lot of concern for the group-think of churches, especially ones that tell their followers how to vote and yet don’t pay any taxes. It’s appalling.

One question for you - have you read any of Peterson’s books? I’ll totally buy you a copy of 12 Rules if you’re interested.

by matlockmatt   2018-11-10

1- Arrume um emprego - vai conhecer pessoas, ganhar seu salario, e conhecer mais de si mesmo sobre que tipo de trabalho você quer fazer pro resto da sua vida ou não. Se não gostou do que trabalhou, mude. Ou, se não gosta mas paga bem e é algo suportável, fique. Essa história de trabalho dos sonhos é utopia. Você não precisa necessariamente amar seu trabalho, você pode gostar bastante do salário deste trabalho e as coisas que este salário te proporciona fazer, como viagens etc... Basta não ser um trabalho que te deixe louco por você odiá-lo.

2- Vá pra uma academia e cuide de sua aparência - vai melhorar sua auto estima

3- Faça algum esporte que goste ou tem interesse em fazer - outra boa forma de conhecer pessoas e criar amizades

Enfim, foque no seu desenvolvimento pessoal e social, não tem como você conhecer pessoas, ter amigos, conhecer potenciais namoradas sem sair de casa.

Also, leia este livro: https://toptalkedbooks.com/amzn/0345816021 Veja os vídeos dele, é um psicólogo professor da universidade de toronto e um cara muito foda que ja me esclareceu muita coisa. Acredito que falta pouco tempo pra chegar o traduzido.

by jxnfpm   2018-11-10

I know you posted similar stuff in the Tampa game. Life beats the alternative.

If you don't have a reason to live, make finding a reason to live your current reason to live.

I highly recommend this:


Not joking.

by elegant26   2018-11-10

Read this https://toptalkedbooks.com/amzn/0345816021 i find it helpful.

by MaxManus   2018-11-10

Denk genau darüber nach, was Du ihnen antust, wenn Du Dein Leben wegwirfst. Das allein könnte Dir schon mal etwas Verantwortung geben und Antrieb etwas aus Deinem Leben zu machen.

Ich will mich jetzt wieder um meins kümmern. Zum Abschluss möchte ich Dir noch ein Buch empfehlen, dass zumindest mir bei der Sinn Suche helfen konnte. [https://toptalkedbooks.com/amzn/0345816021)

Ich wünsche Dir, dass es bei Dir das Gleiche bewirken kann wie bei mir. Wenn Du irgendwann den Sinn des Lebens noch einmal in einem direkten Gespräch erörtern möchtest, dann gerne. Ansonsten würde ich Dir empfehlen, dass zumindest mal mit irgendeiner Person, die Du Dir für inllektuell ebenbürtig hälst in einem offenen Austausch zu tun. Wenn Du meinst die gibt es nicht, dann wäre das eine Problemstelle and der ich anfangen würde zu arbeiten.

by get_a_rewrite   2018-11-10

I loved:

12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos . I got the audible, muy excelente. Brilliant content, not a self help book but its drenched my brain with perspective and was very interesting.

Cognitive Behavioral Workbook for depression Very helpful for general behavior mindfulness even if someones not depressed. That book has helped a ton. My therapist says it is a good replacement if I don't have time or interest in therapy.

by WryGoat   2018-11-10

whoa buddy do i have a book for you

by GEOTUSofA   2018-11-10

Do yourself a solid and give this a read.

12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos https://toptalkedbooks.com/amzn/0345816021

by RPangerandacceptance   2018-11-10

the book

Not being sarcastic, it’s the most focused and applicable overview compared to the YouTube stuff.

by _anewthrowaway_   2018-11-10

OP, I really feel that post, except I'm actually alright at making same sex friends, I think because I'm less invested in getting shut down. I'm still working on fixing it up myself, but here's some advice I'd give.

  • Go to the gym. Not tomorrow, not later, now. And do it again. Make it a habit. When you do an activity repeatably, you use less and less brainpower each repetition until your brain essentially builds a little machine for it and shoves it to the back of your brain. If you do it enough, it becomes second nature/a habit. That won't solve your social problems, but being buff, or even fit, gives you a stronger basis for confidence, in addition to the obvious physical benefits.

  • Treat yourself as somebody you're trying to help. Probably the best takeaway from a book I was reading . People miss their own medications more than their pets' medications, which is really weird when you consider that we largely agree people are of greater worth than animals. The issue is that you are keenly aware of all of the horrible shit wrong with you, and not anyone else. So when you compare yourself to other people, it looks pretty bad if you don't know it isn't an apples to apples comparison. Furthermore, if you actually know all of the horrible shit wrong with you, you can go about fixing it, if you want to fix it.

  • Think of your social skills like any other muscle. If you never use it, it's going to get weak and feeble. It won't be there for you when you need it. So get out there and talk to people. Also, give it what it needs to function. Have a balanced diet, get enough sleep and do so at a semi regular time.

by IcecreamDave   2018-11-10


by nzchippie   2018-11-10

Rule one of twelve completed. Here goes the next eleven https://toptalkedbooks.com/amzn/0345816021

by dacracot   2018-11-10

12 Rules for Life: An Antidote to Chaos

by Drift3rHD   2018-11-10

Rule #2 in Jordan Paterson's book 12 Rules of Life :

>Treat yourself like someone you are responsible for helping

I suggest OP reads the book if he hasn't already.

by PEcoach   2018-11-10

highly recommend you get him this book

by safric   2018-11-10

He's got a bestselling book you could read.


by Chemistryz   2018-11-10

He has a bunch of books and publications -- and a youtube channel with his lectures (he was a professor before he got fired for taking a stand against Canada's law making it illegal to use wrong gender pronouns) most of which are about religion But I found him through a Joe Rogan podcast which was a bit less dry then the youtube videos and highlights a lot of his beliefs without sitting through a lecture.

Then I read a few of his books (his most recent one was a best seller on Amazon for weeks . It's a little wordy, but no worse then the engineering textbooks I was forced to read.

I really like his "clean your room" bit.

by strongfaithfirmmind   2018-11-10

Gospel and Church service are not cheat-codes to life. It is a pathway to illumination.

And gospel and church service is not the only tool you have. "when we obtain any blessing from God, it is by obedience to that law upon which it is predicated." You need to identify which law you need to understand and obey to get the end result you are looking for.

There are things you can control and things you cannot control. For example, you cannot control your IQ, but you can control what you read, do with your time, and discipline, etc... You can't control your genetics, but you can control what you eat, how you get exercise, hygiene, and style, etc...

As you note, the world is not evenly distributed. But it does follow a rhythm.

You also might enjoy: https://toptalkedbooks.com/amzn/0345816021