Sorry, that not only won't work, it'll give MIL more insight into how to destroy the relationship.
Never negotiate with a terrorist; never go to counseling with a flaming asshole who wants the opposite of what you want. They'll treat it as a presidential debate - the opportunity to make themselves look good and you look bad while probing for weak points to use in the future.
Just DON'T. The best counselor in the Solar System isn't gonna convince them to change. A good one will call them out; this will result in the FA quitting counselilng. They see that somebody sees through their shit and that they will lose. They'll bail as there's nothing to win on this playing field.
DH has had the same 'talk' with FMIL FOUR times with little or no change in her behavior. All that works with a person this dysfunctional is consequences. 'Convincing' is impossible. She tries to sit on his lap he pushes / dumps her off and says "STOP THAT. You're not my spouse, you're my mother. ACT LIKE IT. OP, get your lovely behind over here. I want you on my lap."
She won't go anywhere without FDH? Then she stays home. FFIL (if he has the guts) tells her he's going whether she does or not and leaves. If not, the two of them are together; if FMIL has a bitchfest it's his problem.
She whinges in public "...that's what happens when you get an SO," she needs an instant rebuttal: "Sounds like you're confused, Jane. You seem to think your son is married to you. Tell me, do you plan to bear his children? Or just to steal them? Woman, you need help."
She runs off wailing when she doesn't get her way? Let her go! OP, please don't abandon your spouse to his Mommy. You're signaling him that a) her behavior is acceptable or b) that even if it's not, you won't stand by him.
He grew up with this shit - you didn't. She didn't install buttons in you - if someone else did, get therapy to help you stop her from pushing them and ultimately to remove them. FDH may see that and learn from it.
FMIL is winning by default - No one's opposing her. SOMEBODY leads in social situations. If the playing field is left vacant, an obstreperous asshole like FMIL will appoint herself captain of both sides and referee too.
OP, you love him enough to want to spend the rest of your natural lives together, correct? If you don't want to spend it as you are now - in an emotional threesome - You have to lead in the short run. And insist that FDH learns how in the long run.
His bitchass mother is already ruining your relationship. I think FDH wants this not one bit more than you. Maybe even less - he's put up with her interfering shit longer than you have. His conditioning prevents him from standing up for himself or you.
That doesn't mean he's lost forever - as an adult, he's a relative newbie. He can learn. He does need help. Besides examples, quality counseling ASAP, and the books u/ino_y suggested, he'll likely benefit from reading and rereading No More Mr. Nice Guy.
by JKirkN 2021-12-10
No Mr Nice Guy is better than Models at first. Because it focuses more on the person in general. Unlike Models, which is oriented toward girls more.
You sound like a nice guy, and that may be part of the problem. This book helped me correct that for myself. "No More Mr. Nice Guy" https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
You do what is in your best interest regardless of how other people react. This is a basic life lesson that many of us don’t understand for a variety of lessons.
Only you know what is best for your life and only you are capable of executing and meeting your needs. Therefore it’s 100% ok for you to pursue your needs. Anyone who thinks otherwise can choke on a bag of dicks.
I'm a dude and I think you are spot on with your assessment of his behavior. There is a lot of complex stuff going on with him. What you are seeing is just the result of deeper issues.
If you really care about your friend, buy him this book:
It's really helped me see all the terrible defensive strategies I've unknowingly created to deal with childhood abandonment issues.
I hope you can be a positive source of inspiration and personal growth for your friend.
by Poor_Mexican 2019-11-17
Your wife doesn't respect you, simple as that. The problem isn't her, its you. Do yourself a favor and read this book before you go see a divorce lawyer, trust me it WILL HELP.
Your suggestion that the father should have that conversation with the daughter (that people may do or say things to hurt her and that she is not responsible for their behavior but she is responsible for her reaction) is a great suggestion. And for all we know, he had that conversation with her before going up to the store to confront the clerk.
If the clerk were a "250 lb guy" the father might have reconsidered approaching him because if he becomes aggressive he might get injured. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the father was justified in wanting to confront the clerk in the first place. The clerk, whether he realized it or not, was sexually harassing those girls - literally making fun of their puberty. He should be called out on his bad behavior. The dad was not using this as an excuse to "go off" on someone. He was nothing except calm and collected the whole time. Of course he was angry, but did we ever see him act on that anger? No. Your hypothetical situation of the clerk not being able to defend himself makes no sense. Hell, the other guy in line with him seemed more agitated about the situation than he was.
And regarding your opinion on this whole thing; I wouldn't call you a loser but you certainly are far from a normal opinion on this kind of a situation, whatever that might imply.
Also, I highly recommend this book (having read it, myself).
by massivewang 2019-11-17
So let's take stock here:
You're a grown man
You're paying for this policy
So what's the issue with saying "Mom I love you, but I don't believe this to be the best use of my money." and then doing so?
There's nothing wrong with doing what is in your best interest. A big life lesson is learning how to do so even when other people are not pleased with your decision. You are not obligated to make your mom happy nor are you obligated to get her to agree with all of your decisions.
I think you might have an issue with conflict and saying no in general, and if that's the case I highly recommend this book:
With that said I know family can be a challenge. I wish you well whatever you decide, good luck!
by [deleted] 2019-08-24
NTA
Man, I gotta say, my heart breaks for you. I am so sorry for the unnecessary pain you've burdened, not only as a kid but as an adult. Also, I'm so sorry about your step-mom, you've really been dealth a shitty hand.
Honestly, you should seek therapy to discuss your childhood. While the normal person would react with rage against biomom, you seem to have gone the opposite direction. Not only are you not cutting her from your life, it seems like you're trying to sell her on being a grandmother.
Your mom is emotionally manipulating you. She's not talking to you because she wants to control you by withholding love and affection, that is if she's even capable of showing love.
You need to cut her out completely. If there is to be reconciliation, it needs to start with her. SHE should be the one hopping on a plane to visit her son and grandchildren. SHE is the one who should come crawling back to you for forgiveness. SHE should be showing up at YOUR doorstep.
I'm worried about you. You're holding on to this hope that you can convince your mom to be in your life. You can't make her do that, she made her choice when she walked out on you the first time. You need to accept the fact that your mom is never going to be the parent you need her to be. You need to mourn that loss, and you need to talk to someone who can guide you through the healing process.
I want to first recommend you pick up a copy of "No More Mister Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. This is the best guide for teaching men to overcome emotional manipulation and growing past the failures of their parents. I think you'll find a lot of wisdom in the book and quite a few times you'll feel like Glover is narrating your life.
Additionally, I'd like to pray for you as you start this healing process. Despite the failures of your biomom, I do believe you have a heavenly parent who will reciprocate back the love you're trying to give someone else.
She showed me pictures of her tattoos and some of them are bad but I’m not going to say they are. I end up saying I like them
You're needy, you're a liar, and you're afraid.
Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert A Glover.
by Vraboxin 2019-07-21
A man doesn't have to be exclusively straight in order to qualify for white-knighting. Biologically, every man has the instinct to spread his seed to as many women as possible regardless of sexuality.
Even nice guys fool themselves into thinking that they aren't influenced by pussy just because they're gay.
by watuphoss 2019-07-21
I was the same way, this book helped me out a bit.
Why do you care so much about what others think of you? Why can't you make decisions that make you happy regardless of what other people think? You need to realize that:
1.) You have emotional/phsysical/psychological needs
2.) You are the only one who can pursue the means to meet said needs.
3.) You are the only person who has your best interest in mind.
I'd be surprised if your unwillingness to be open about your career struggles with the people around you doesn't correlate with an unwillingness to be open about your other desires/needs/wants.
Perhaps I'm wrong, at any rate I think the linked book is worth your time.
Good luck!
by Xander756 2019-07-21
Because "Nice Guy Syndrome" is an affliction that is detrimental to society in general so I do what I can to fight it. Check out this book: https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
You can ignore the women part, but the author touches on some of the reasons people act like you act and how to change.
Sorry, that not only won't work, it'll give MIL more insight into how to destroy the relationship.
Never negotiate with a terrorist; never go to counseling with a flaming asshole who wants the opposite of what you want. They'll treat it as a presidential debate - the opportunity to make themselves look good and you look bad while probing for weak points to use in the future.
Just DON'T. The best counselor in the Solar System isn't gonna convince them to change. A good one will call them out; this will result in the FA quitting counselilng. They see that somebody sees through their shit and that they will lose. They'll bail as there's nothing to win on this playing field.
DH has had the same 'talk' with FMIL FOUR times with little or no change in her behavior. All that works with a person this dysfunctional is consequences. 'Convincing' is impossible. She tries to sit on his lap he pushes / dumps her off and says "STOP THAT. You're not my spouse, you're my mother. ACT LIKE IT. OP, get your lovely behind over here. I want you on my lap."
She won't go anywhere without FDH? Then she stays home. FFIL (if he has the guts) tells her he's going whether she does or not and leaves. If not, the two of them are together; if FMIL has a bitchfest it's his problem.
She whinges in public "...that's what happens when you get an SO," she needs an instant rebuttal: "Sounds like you're confused, Jane. You seem to think your son is married to you. Tell me, do you plan to bear his children? Or just to steal them? Woman, you need help."
She runs off wailing when she doesn't get her way? Let her go! OP, please don't abandon your spouse to his Mommy. You're signaling him that a) her behavior is acceptable or b) that even if it's not, you won't stand by him.
He grew up with this shit - you didn't. She didn't install buttons in you - if someone else did, get therapy to help you stop her from pushing them and ultimately to remove them. FDH may see that and learn from it.
FMIL is winning by default - No one's opposing her. SOMEBODY leads in social situations. If the playing field is left vacant, an obstreperous asshole like FMIL will appoint herself captain of both sides and referee too.
OP, you love him enough to want to spend the rest of your natural lives together, correct? If you don't want to spend it as you are now - in an emotional threesome - You have to lead in the short run. And insist that FDH learns how in the long run.
His bitchass mother is already ruining your relationship. I think FDH wants this not one bit more than you. Maybe even less - he's put up with her interfering shit longer than you have. His conditioning prevents him from standing up for himself or you.
That doesn't mean he's lost forever - as an adult, he's a relative newbie. He can learn. He does need help. Besides examples, quality counseling ASAP, and the books u/ino_y suggested, he'll likely benefit from reading and rereading No More Mr. Nice Guy.
No Mr Nice Guy is better than Models at first. Because it focuses more on the person in general. Unlike Models, which is oriented toward girls more.
Corey needs to get this book:
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
Read the Book “No more Mr Nice Guy”. Perfect description of what it and and what to do about it.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
You do what is in your best interest regardless of how other people react. This is a basic life lesson that many of us don’t understand for a variety of lessons.
Only you know what is best for your life and only you are capable of executing and meeting your needs. Therefore it’s 100% ok for you to pursue your needs. Anyone who thinks otherwise can choke on a bag of dicks.
Read this book:
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
I'm a dude and I think you are spot on with your assessment of his behavior. There is a lot of complex stuff going on with him. What you are seeing is just the result of deeper issues.
If you really care about your friend, buy him this book:
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
It's really helped me see all the terrible defensive strategies I've unknowingly created to deal with childhood abandonment issues.
I hope you can be a positive source of inspiration and personal growth for your friend.
Your wife doesn't respect you, simple as that. The problem isn't her, its you. Do yourself a favor and read this book before you go see a divorce lawyer, trust me it WILL HELP.
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
Your suggestion that the father should have that conversation with the daughter (that people may do or say things to hurt her and that she is not responsible for their behavior but she is responsible for her reaction) is a great suggestion. And for all we know, he had that conversation with her before going up to the store to confront the clerk.
If the clerk were a "250 lb guy" the father might have reconsidered approaching him because if he becomes aggressive he might get injured. But that has nothing to do with whether or not the father was justified in wanting to confront the clerk in the first place. The clerk, whether he realized it or not, was sexually harassing those girls - literally making fun of their puberty. He should be called out on his bad behavior. The dad was not using this as an excuse to "go off" on someone. He was nothing except calm and collected the whole time. Of course he was angry, but did we ever see him act on that anger? No. Your hypothetical situation of the clerk not being able to defend himself makes no sense. Hell, the other guy in line with him seemed more agitated about the situation than he was.
And regarding your opinion on this whole thing; I wouldn't call you a loser but you certainly are far from a normal opinion on this kind of a situation, whatever that might imply.
Also, I highly recommend this book (having read it, myself).
So let's take stock here:
So what's the issue with saying "Mom I love you, but I don't believe this to be the best use of my money." and then doing so?
There's nothing wrong with doing what is in your best interest. A big life lesson is learning how to do so even when other people are not pleased with your decision. You are not obligated to make your mom happy nor are you obligated to get her to agree with all of your decisions.
I think you might have an issue with conflict and saying no in general, and if that's the case I highly recommend this book:
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
With that said I know family can be a challenge. I wish you well whatever you decide, good luck!
NTA
Man, I gotta say, my heart breaks for you. I am so sorry for the unnecessary pain you've burdened, not only as a kid but as an adult. Also, I'm so sorry about your step-mom, you've really been dealth a shitty hand.
Honestly, you should seek therapy to discuss your childhood. While the normal person would react with rage against biomom, you seem to have gone the opposite direction. Not only are you not cutting her from your life, it seems like you're trying to sell her on being a grandmother.
Your mom is emotionally manipulating you. She's not talking to you because she wants to control you by withholding love and affection, that is if she's even capable of showing love.
You need to cut her out completely. If there is to be reconciliation, it needs to start with her. SHE should be the one hopping on a plane to visit her son and grandchildren. SHE is the one who should come crawling back to you for forgiveness. SHE should be showing up at YOUR doorstep.
I'm worried about you. You're holding on to this hope that you can convince your mom to be in your life. You can't make her do that, she made her choice when she walked out on you the first time. You need to accept the fact that your mom is never going to be the parent you need her to be. You need to mourn that loss, and you need to talk to someone who can guide you through the healing process.
I want to first recommend you pick up a copy of "No More Mister Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. This is the best guide for teaching men to overcome emotional manipulation and growing past the failures of their parents. I think you'll find a lot of wisdom in the book and quite a few times you'll feel like Glover is narrating your life.
Additionally, I'd like to pray for you as you start this healing process. Despite the failures of your biomom, I do believe you have a heavenly parent who will reciprocate back the love you're trying to give someone else.
All the best and good luck.
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
She showed me pictures of her tattoos and some of them are bad but I’m not going to say they are. I end up saying I like them
You're needy, you're a liar, and you're afraid.
Read No More Mr Nice Guy by Robert A Glover.
A man doesn't have to be exclusively straight in order to qualify for white-knighting. Biologically, every man has the instinct to spread his seed to as many women as possible regardless of sexuality.
Even nice guys fool themselves into thinking that they aren't influenced by pussy just because they're gay.
I was the same way, this book helped me out a bit.
Here, these will help alot.
No more mister nice guy
When I say no I feel guilty
And this one is the most important.
Married man sex life primer
See you in 7 years.
You need to read No More Mr. Nice Guy
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339
​
Why do you care so much about what others think of you? Why can't you make decisions that make you happy regardless of what other people think? You need to realize that:
1.) You have emotional/phsysical/psychological needs
2.) You are the only one who can pursue the means to meet said needs.
3.) You are the only person who has your best interest in mind.
I'd be surprised if your unwillingness to be open about your career struggles with the people around you doesn't correlate with an unwillingness to be open about your other desires/needs/wants.
Perhaps I'm wrong, at any rate I think the linked book is worth your time.
Good luck!
Because "Nice Guy Syndrome" is an affliction that is detrimental to society in general so I do what I can to fight it. Check out this book: https://www.amazon.com/No-More-Mr-Nice-Guy/dp/0762415339