How the Irish Became White (Routledge Classics)

Category: Americas
Author: Noel Ignatiev
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by soheil   2022-10-14
I highly recommend reading How the Irish Became White [0]


by aahfeekiee   2019-08-24

to summarize, it will depend on three points: [1] your race (or the one you pass as) relative to [2] its history in the place you go to, as well as [3] the purpose of your visit.

[warning: a lot of generalization] for example, as a Chinese person in the US would be viewed as a model minority in most spaces (especially employment) and would not face disproportionately higher incarceration rates as your black or latinx peers. To assimilate into the local lifestyle and culture can help you blend in, but it definitely won't completely prevent incidents of name-calling, racial aggression, etc.

On the other hand, if you went to Indonesia for job opportunities, despite still being Chinese, you are probably more likely to be met with hostility and discrimination, because the impressions Indonesians have on their local Chinese populations is different to what Americans have on theirs. HOWEVER if you make it clear that you are there as a tourist (and not a threat to their employment opportunities) the reaction might differ.

Of course, all of these are generalizations to be taken with a grain of salt; they are simply there to illustrate how there can be differences in how you are treated based on the abovementioned factors. I'm here not to help you predict what you, in your context, will face in the country you would be visiting/residing in, instead I am here to introduce to you factors that you have to consider and apply to your particular situation.

Here are more examples to further illustrate how history can further complicate how you can be treated based on race:

  • We as Singaporeans view white people as almost homogenous, but there very much is racism within whiteness.
  1. Aryans in Nazi Germany discriminating (and lots of murdering) against Jewish people, despite both being essentially white to us.
  2. Put an Irish person in White America and there's a history of how they went from being discriminated against to being largely incorporated into whiteness.
  3. Croats, Serbs, Bosniaks and Montenegrins are treated as just Slavs in their diaspora, but put them in the Yugoslavian region and suddenly the identity divides and they discriminate each other based on their national identities despite speaking mutually intelligible Serbo-Croatian languages and sharing overlaps in culture & history.
  • Sikhs in India have a history (of brutal tension) with Muslims, but put them in the US and they will in most instances actually pass off as Muslim and will frequently be the target of Islamophobia.

The answer to such a broad question is truly more complicated than what the analogies in the comments section can give. The solutions to helping cope with or reducing the incidents of racism in such circumstances will also differ, and you might have to look beyond the advice of "just assimilate and you will be fine".

Do your research!

by iTriggerWhiteBoys   2019-08-24

As ive explained to the morons before you here like a thousand times.

its more tied to the social construction of "whiteness" than anything to do with skin color or ethnicity. please see this

there is some good writing on the matter by W. E. B. Du Bois, Theodore W. Allen, and a few others, on the phenomena. Noel Ignatiev actually has a pretty good book on the matter, its called "How the Irish Became White"

this is a critique over sociopolitical status, not skin color, nor ethnicity, its not a discussion about english people, or Irish people, or Italian People, or german people. nor is it based on skin color, there are Iranian(literal Aryans) with white skin, there are people living in the Caucasus(literal Caucasians), they not classified as "white".

by Sunfried   2019-07-21

There's actually a decent amount of Academia dedicated to figuring out how the Irish transitioned from identifiable ethnic minority to other white people. The most famous example is about how the Irish came to become oppressors, which is oF cOuRsE synonymous with white.

But the most profound way in which they became what was... they assimilated.

by rgiggs11   2019-07-21

According to "How the Irish Became White" author Ignatiev , Irish people were basicially treated as an 'other' race in the US initially.

by linuxluser   2019-01-13

Only, those groups weren't always white.

by iTriggerWhiteBoys   2019-01-13

I mean it isnt.. lol

its more tied to the social construction of "whiteness" than anything to do with skin color or ethnicity. please see this

there is some good writing on the matter by W. E. B. Du Bois, Theodore W. Allen, and a few others, on the phenomena. Noel Ignatiev actually has a pretty good book on the matter, its called "How the Irish Became White"

> Your post history is filled with bigoted racist comments

please show me.

you out here catching feeling and shit bruh, you seem very upset, hmm whats the word im looking for.....^^^^^^^^^^triggered

by JimWilliams423   2019-01-13

> u kike.

So, that's a yes on your name having been changed to pass as white.

> you dont have a single incident of a pole being not considered white.

Hello, McFly? Ben Franklin explicitly said you weren't white. Look, none of this is a secret, I'm not pulling this out of my ass. Its well established, uncontroversial history. if you weren't a WASP, you weren't white. You weren't black, but you weren't white either. You were considered inferior to real whites. There are literally thousands of books and papers discussing it and it was all simply common knowledge at the time because that's just how people saw it, some examples:

by doesthoughttakespace   2018-11-10

"How the Irish Became white"

Definition of Whiteness in america

The Alien Act

“They steal, they are cruel and bloody, full of revenge, and delighting in deadly execution, licentious, swearers and blasphemers, common ravishers of women, and murderers of children.” —Edmund Spencer

“The emigrants who land at New York, whether they remain in that city or come on in the interior, are not merely ignorant and poor—which might be their misfortune rather than their fault—but they are drunken, dirty, indolent, and riotous, so as to be the objects of dislike and fear to all in whose neighbourhood they congregate in large numbers.” —James Silk Buckingham

by LeftWingGunClub   2018-11-10

I like to grab a copy of How the Irish Became White and slap 'em with it.

by thotuthot   2018-11-10

You should find out when they let you and your people in the club, celticflame3.

by Blackthorn   2017-09-26
American history can be quite convoluted and confusing. This book might help: