What in the world is normal? (Because normal does not mean "healthy" or "functional.") Okay... Let's move on to some suggested reading and other activity, shall we?
ACA, EA and CoDA meetings (you can find meeting locators on their websites);
Jiddu Krishnamurti's On Relationships;
Practicing some thought questioner & mindfulness inducer like the "10 StEPs of Emotion Processing" so that one is able to continue to sense what is going on and know what to do about it;
Pia Mellody's Facing Codependence;
Anne Wilson Schaef's Co-Dependence: Misunderstood, Mistreated;
Barry & Janae Weinhold's Breaking Free of the Codependency Trap;
Melody Beattie's The Language of Letting Go;
Susan Forward's Emotional Blackmail along with this brief article on dealing with manipulative relationships;
Patricia Evans's Controlling People on the same topic;
Patrick Carnes's The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships;
DBT's "FAST" interpersonal-boundary-setting skills set (at DBTSelfHelp.com).
by not-moses 2018-02-16
Rule of thumb for this abusee: NEVER confront an abuser without giving it plenty of forethought.
Here's a pick-up that may be pointless after the corral gate got opened and the horses ran off, but...
Confronting Abusers & Handling Rage Effectively
And... as regards dealing with the upshots:
Recovering from Shame
The Feeling is Always Temporary
Distress Tolerance & Emotion Regulation
Finally, some books to help your process the abuse without getting into it with either parent:
Left untreated, my parents' abuse did little other than fester, and at times erupt in unfortunate ways.
> She used to stare at me with squinted eyes, and would randomly blurt out things that she had somehow “figured out” about me, most of which was untrue and weird.
I never thought I'd ever read anyone else's description of that experience.
> it seems like she thought she knew me more than I knew myself, and really enjoyed telling me insights about my behavior and making assumptions.
"Righteous narcissism." Once I understood why my own mother needed that so desperately as a defense against her own fear of being abused again (and be denied her reality as her mother and grandmother had denied it after she was raped by her cousin when she was nine), I could see her and I very clearly pushing each other around on our little Karpman Drama Triangle. Sick.
I had to read book like these (below) and steep myself in ACA and CoDA to get the bitterness to subside.
Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD
Block, S.; Block, C.: Mind-Body Workbook for Anger, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2013.
Chapman, A.; Gratz, K.; Tull, M.: The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Anger: Using DBT Mindfulness & Emotion Regulation Skills to Manage Anger, Oakland CA: New Harbinger, 2015.
Eifert, G.; McKay, M.; Forsyth, J.: ACT on life not anger: The New Acceptance & Commitment Therapy Guide to Problem Anger, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2006.
Harbin, T.: Beyond Anger: a guide for me: How to Free Yourself from the Grip of Anger and Get More Out of Life, New York: Marlowe & Company, 2000.
McKay, M.; Rogers, P.: The Anger Control Workbook: Simple, innovative techniques for managing anger and developing healthier ways of relating; Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2000.
McKay, M.; Rogers, P.; McKay, J.: When Anger Hurts: Quieting the Storm Within, 2nd Ed., Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2003.
Simpkins, C. A.; Simpkins, A. M.: The Tao of Bipolar: Using Meditation & Mindfulness to Find Balance & Peace, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2013.
Stahl, B.; Goldstein, E.: A Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Workbook, Oakland CA: New Harbinger, 2010.
by not-moses 2018-02-16
We do NOT diagnose here (anyone who does is way out of line). But we can suggest having a look at such Dx's to see if the shoe sort of fits. And for one with a BPD parent, it often does. (Raising my hand here in both cases.)
Here's a list of books (with links to their amazon.com listings) you can look over to see what you think. Do note the last two, for sure, though all of them are probably at least somewhat in the ballpark:
Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD
And if you're looking for the road out this crappy little town:
>>> From Bipolar to Borderline to Complex PTSD: The Long Way Around the Recovery Barn
by not-moses 2018-02-16
Pretty similar FoO background here. Had to do all the stuff listed in the earlier post at the link below to dig out of the upshots to the extent that I have. Have also read and done the work suggested in the books listed after that first link.
From Bipolar to Borderline to Complex PTSD: The Long Way Around the Recovery Barn
We're seeing more and more of this from the second-, third- and fourth-generation victims of traumatized mothers who tried to cope with their unfinished business by trying to control everyone and everything around them to whatever extent possible. Sigh.
> the leaders of this church are extremely manipulative, they would tell my mom I️ was the devil, that I️ was possessed because I️ listened to the radio, that I️ was teaching all the other children to do bad things.
Another widely observed phenomenon among survivors. To that end, may I suggest having a look at the articles at the links below? (I was raised in an extreme, evangelical Xtian world, btw. And it set me up to chase "The Answer" in one cult after another in my 20s and 30s.)
Codependence & Cults
Coercive Persuasion in Cults
I had to be de-programmed from the instruction, conditioning, indoctrineation, socialization, habituation and (invisible to me) normalization of my home and church (as well as other cult) upbringing... after all that brainwashing took me the gates of CPTSD hell (including 11 hospitalizations and two wake-up-in-the-ICU suicide attempts) from '94 to '03. I'm not in that box / frame / institution / paradigm anymore. And how I got from there to here is summarized in the earlier post at the link below:
From Bipolar to Borderline to Complex PTSD: The Long Way Around the Recovery Barn
Hmm. Some books that were helpful for me that may be helpful for you:
Two of the big names in CPTSD right now: Bessel van de Kolk and Peter Walker. Their books are kicking doors in right and left. But to give credit where it is due, it was Alice Miller and Judith Lewis Herman who started the "movement" decades ago before "CPTSD" was ever used to describe it. In the intervening period, authors & books like the following were at least connecting the dots:
I am so sorry for your pain and for the lies you've had to endure from your nParent/s. It isn't fair and you can't change the past, but you do deserve better. Have you cut down on contact with them? Are you going to hurt yourself? If you feel like you may, please seek help from a medical provider or licensed therapist. If you don't have insurance, please go to an ER.
Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD
Then... further suggested resources:
(I used to be able to provide links, but so doing requires a lot of review-&-approval labor by the moderators here, and one can find all of these with good search engines):
1) The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website;
2) "The Five Stages of Recovery" at pairadocks.blogspot.com to see where one is in them;
3) The "Karpman Drama Triangle" schematic of control strategies in interpersonal relationships;
4) Codependents Anonymous, Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families and Emotions Anonymous meetings (you can find meeting locators on their websites);
5) "Jiddu Krishnamurti on Loneliness vs. Being Alone" at pairadocks.blogspot.com, further quoting a young Krishnamurti on being alone vs. being lonely;
6) Practicing some thought questioner & mindfulness inducer like the "10 StEPs of Emotion Processing" at pairadocks.blogspot.com, so that one is able to continue to sense what is going on and know what to do about it;
7) Carefully reading the lyrics while listening to Alanis Morrissette's CD / MP3, "Jagged Little Pill";
8) Pia Mellody's book, Facing Codependence;
9) Anne Wilson Schaef's book, Co-Dependence: Misunderstood, Mistreated;
10) Barry & Jane Weinhold's book, Breaking Free of the Codependency Trap;
11) Susan Forward's book, Emotional Blackmail on manipulative relationships;
12) Patricia Evans's book, Controlling People on the same topic;
13) DBT's "FAST" boundary-setting skills set (on DBTSelfHelp.com).
by ilovecloudsandbears 2017-08-19
I agree with rapunzel1111 - record if you can, and get used to keeping detailed notes regarding who said what. I have been to several counselors who didn't believe in narcissistic personality disorders (NPD) and proceeded to blame me for the issues in my relationship with Nrents. If you have the ability to select a counselor you want, look for ones that have experience with N-personalities, N-related disorders, or even do an initial meet-and-greet to discover if they have ever counseled anyone else who was victimized by a narcissist (this will also indicate whether or not they believe NPDs exist). Some counselors who are far away are open to Skype or phone sessions.
It's important to recognize that many health professionals don't want to weigh in too early, and many N victims can present issues of their own which may or may not be the same as the N. It's also the difference (at least in the US) between some counselors and actual mental health professionals - professionals (especially those employed by the government) can only make decisions based on behavior they have actually witnessed. We have gone through this with a family member who will act normal when a professional is present.
Anger is a natural reaction to many situations, so start by acknowledging it and allowing yourself to be angry (essentially self-validation). Say, "I'm angry about x. It's ok for me to be angry about x." Be angry, but try to move it in a positive direction by determining why you're angry and what can be done to alter/fix/avoid the same trigger in the future. It's also natural to go through periods of anger as you remember abusive things/actions/situations and process through them.
It's possible to become what you hate, so I would encourage you to not allow anger to simmer or grow into rage. If you haven't already, try journaling as well to help clear your head and ensure you are moving towards healing.
These books are good starting points to help you work through how to best love and forgive yourself while separating from toxic and/or Nrents:
> I'm on[ly] 19 and i have to hold this whole family together.
Who says? Why are you responsible to rescue a bunch of people who refuse to take care of themselves?
Strongly suggested:
1) Understanding very clearly where all of your family members are on this list of the five stages of therapeutic recovery;
2) A careful study of CoDA's Patterns & Characteristics;
3) Anything on the topic of codependence by Melodie Beattie, Pia Mellody, Anne Wilson Schaef, Barry & Janae Weinhold, Charles Whitfield of Sharon Wegescheider (they're all on the Internet);
1) Medications, but only if really needed to get one stabilized enough to do the next six things on this list: Find a board certified psychopharmacologist in your area by using the clinician locator on the Psychology Today website. Getting psych meds from a GP or primary care doc can be useless or even risky. Psych diagnoses, meds and med interactions are just too complex now for most GPs and primary care docs.
2) Support Groups: AA, MA and/or NA if one is using intoxicants to try to cope with emotional pain; ACA, EA and CoDA... where you will find others in similar boats who have found explanations, answers and solutions.
3) Books and academic, professional websites including Mayo Clinic, WebMD, NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health), NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), and even Wikipedia (when everything asserted is solidly documented with citations). Strongly recommended because they all understand the upshots of having been stressed for too long, including complex PTSD which sounds like at least a good possibility here: Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine, Patricia Ogden, Ronald Kurtz, Laurence Heller, Bruce McEwen, Sonya Lupien and Robert Sapolsky. Accurate information is power.
4) Psychotherapy: I currently use Ogden's SP4T as the interoceptive 9th of the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing to manage any "time bombs" that turn up, but had good results over the years with several of the CBTs including REBT, collegiate critical thinking, schema therapy, and CPT, as well as DBT, MBCT, ACT, MBBT, MBSR, EMDR, HBCP, SEPt, and NARM.
DBT, MBCT, ACT, MBBT and MBSR are terrific for symptom management. EMDR, HBCT, SEPt, SP4T and NARM are first-rate for memory-reprocessing, sense-making and detachment from the conditioning, programming, etc.
To find the clinicians who know how to use these psychotherapies, look here, and here, and here, and (for DBT specialists in particular) here. If you dig a little on each page, you will be able to see which therapies they use. Then interview them as though they were applying for a job with your company. Most MD / psychiatrists, btw, are not therapists themselves (they are medication specialists), but can refer you to those who are, and are often -- though not always -- excellent sources of referral.
5) Mindfulness Meditation: Try the Vipassana-style? (For a lot of people with anxiety, this stuff handles anxiety chop chop. Not sure about depression. Many of the modern psychotherapies for anxiety are actually based on it now.)
6) Therapy Workbooks: I got a lot of lift-off by using inexpensive workbooks like these, and these, and these, and these.
7) Moderate exercise: Because it is the single healthiest of the distractions one can use to yank oneself out of the paradigm for a while... and it can help to "massage" the brain so that it responds more quickly to psychotherapy.
by not-moses 2017-08-19
Let's not go to prison for what someone else did.
I will presume you've read some of the books list at the end of this post for the lurkers.
If the following statement resonates for you, and you want to get out of this Matrix, reply to this message.
"If one was regularly ignored, abandoned, discounted, disclaimed, and rejected -- as well as invalidated, confused, betrayed, insulted, criticized, judged, blamed, embarrassed, humiliated, victimized, demonized, persecuted, picked on, dumped on, bullied, scapegoated, and/or otherwise abused -- by others upon whom they depended for survival in early life, AND/OR they are highly stressed by school, work, relationships or other chronic life challenges,...
they may have been in-struct-ed, in-doctrine-ated, programmed, conditioned, socialized and/or normalized to...
beliefs, values, ideals, principles, convictions, rules, codes, regulations and requirements about how we or they (or the world) should / must / ought / have to be...
and then beat themselves up for not being that way."
I was regularly battered into submission by parents who I think had been battered into submission by their parents, as well as societal factors beyond their control. They were angry. They only had one child to take it out on. I got pretty scrambled and raised without understanding and functional survival skills. Ultimately, I had to get some, and this was how:
1) Medications, but only if really needed to get me stabilized enough to do the next seven things on this list: After wasting a lot of time with people who didn't know what they were doing, I found a board certified psychopharmacologist in my area by using the clinician locator on the Psychology Today website. I learned the hard way that getting psych meds from a GP or primary care doc can be useless or even risky. Psych diagnoses, meds and med interactions are just too complex now for most GPs and primary care docs.
2) Support Groups: I got into AA, MA and/or NA because I was using intoxicants to try to cope with my emotional pain; and ACA, EA and CoDA... where I found others in similar boats who had found explanations, answers and solutions.
3) Books and academic, professional websites including Mayo Clinic, WebMD, NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health), NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), and even Wikipedia (when everything asserted is solidly documented with citations). Strongly recommended: Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD, and because they all understand the upshots of having been stressed for too long, including underlying complex PTSD which is what I (and most people with BPD) have: Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine, Patricia Ogden, Ronald Kurtz, Laurence Heller, Bruce McEwen, Sonya Lupien and Robert Sapolsky. Additional reading:
Thank you for initiating a bibliography! My fav is Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents.
I was able to break away from my parents after having a breakthrough from reading this book.
https://www.amazon.com/Children-Self-Absorbed-Grown-Ups-Getting-Narcissistic/dp/1572245611
Perhaps this will help?
https://www.amazon.com/Children-Self-Absorbed-Grown-Ups-Getting-Narcissistic/dp/1572245611
Hmm. Try one or two these, maybe:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
What in the world is normal? (Because normal does not mean "healthy" or "functional.") Okay... Let's move on to some suggested reading and other activity, shall we?
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website;
"Understanding the Drama Triangle...;"
ACA, EA and CoDA meetings (you can find meeting locators on their websites);
Jiddu Krishnamurti's On Relationships;
Practicing some thought questioner & mindfulness inducer like the "10 StEPs of Emotion Processing" so that one is able to continue to sense what is going on and know what to do about it;
Pia Mellody's Facing Codependence;
Anne Wilson Schaef's Co-Dependence: Misunderstood, Mistreated;
Barry & Janae Weinhold's Breaking Free of the Codependency Trap;
Melody Beattie's The Language of Letting Go;
Susan Forward's Emotional Blackmail along with this brief article on dealing with manipulative relationships;
Patricia Evans's Controlling People on the same topic;
Patrick Carnes's The Betrayal Bond: Breaking Free of Exploitive Relationships;
DBT's "FAST" interpersonal-boundary-setting skills set (at DBTSelfHelp.com).
Rule of thumb for this abusee: NEVER confront an abuser without giving it plenty of forethought.
Here's a pick-up that may be pointless after the corral gate got opened and the horses ran off, but...
Confronting Abusers & Handling Rage Effectively
And... as regards dealing with the upshots:
Recovering from Shame
The Feeling is Always Temporary
Distress Tolerance & Emotion Regulation
Finally, some books to help your process the abuse without getting into it with either parent:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
> Does it subside or get better?
Left untreated, my parents' abuse did little other than fester, and at times erupt in unfortunate ways.
> She used to stare at me with squinted eyes, and would randomly blurt out things that she had somehow “figured out” about me, most of which was untrue and weird.
I never thought I'd ever read anyone else's description of that experience.
> it seems like she thought she knew me more than I knew myself, and really enjoyed telling me insights about my behavior and making assumptions.
"Righteous narcissism." Once I understood why my own mother needed that so desperately as a defense against her own fear of being abused again (and be denied her reality as her mother and grandmother had denied it after she was raped by her cousin when she was nine), I could see her and I very clearly pushing each other around on our little Karpman Drama Triangle. Sick.
I had to read book like these (below) and steep myself in ACA and CoDA to get the bitterness to subside.
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD
Block, S.; Block, C.: Mind-Body Workbook for Anger, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2013.
Chapman, A.; Gratz, K.; Tull, M.: The Dialectical Behavior Therapy Skills Workbook for Anger: Using DBT Mindfulness & Emotion Regulation Skills to Manage Anger, Oakland CA: New Harbinger, 2015.
Eifert, G.; McKay, M.; Forsyth, J.: ACT on life not anger: The New Acceptance & Commitment Therapy Guide to Problem Anger, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2006.
Harbin, T.: Beyond Anger: a guide for me: How to Free Yourself from the Grip of Anger and Get More Out of Life, New York: Marlowe & Company, 2000.
McKay, M.; Rogers, P.: The Anger Control Workbook: Simple, innovative techniques for managing anger and developing healthier ways of relating; Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2000.
McKay, M.; Rogers, P.; McKay, J.: When Anger Hurts: Quieting the Storm Within, 2nd Ed., Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2003.
Simpkins, C. A.; Simpkins, A. M.: The Tao of Bipolar: Using Meditation & Mindfulness to Find Balance & Peace, Oakland, CA: New Harbinger, 2013.
Stahl, B.; Goldstein, E.: A Mindfulness-Based Stress Reduction Workbook, Oakland CA: New Harbinger, 2010.
We do NOT diagnose here (anyone who does is way out of line). But we can suggest having a look at such Dx's to see if the shoe sort of fits. And for one with a BPD parent, it often does. (Raising my hand here in both cases.)
Here's a list of books (with links to their amazon.com listings) you can look over to see what you think. Do note the last two, for sure, though all of them are probably at least somewhat in the ballpark:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD
And if you're looking for the road out this crappy little town:
>>> From Bipolar to Borderline to Complex PTSD: The Long Way Around the Recovery Barn
Pretty similar FoO background here. Had to do all the stuff listed in the earlier post at the link below to dig out of the upshots to the extent that I have. Have also read and done the work suggested in the books listed after that first link.
From Bipolar to Borderline to Complex PTSD: The Long Way Around the Recovery Barn
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
> homeschooled me from kindergarten to 7th grade
We're seeing more and more of this from the second-, third- and fourth-generation victims of traumatized mothers who tried to cope with their unfinished business by trying to control everyone and everything around them to whatever extent possible. Sigh.
> the leaders of this church are extremely manipulative, they would tell my mom I️ was the devil, that I️ was possessed because I️ listened to the radio, that I️ was teaching all the other children to do bad things.
Another widely observed phenomenon among survivors. To that end, may I suggest having a look at the articles at the links below? (I was raised in an extreme, evangelical Xtian world, btw. And it set me up to chase "The Answer" in one cult after another in my 20s and 30s.)
Codependence & Cults
Coercive Persuasion in Cults
I had to be de-programmed from the instruction, conditioning, indoctrineation, socialization, habituation and (invisible to me) normalization of my home and church (as well as other cult) upbringing... after all that brainwashing took me the gates of CPTSD hell (including 11 hospitalizations and two wake-up-in-the-ICU suicide attempts) from '94 to '03. I'm not in that box / frame / institution / paradigm anymore. And how I got from there to here is summarized in the earlier post at the link below:
From Bipolar to Borderline to Complex PTSD: The Long Way Around the Recovery Barn
Hmm. Some books that were helpful for me that may be helpful for you:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
Two of the big names in CPTSD right now: Bessel van de Kolk and Peter Walker. Their books are kicking doors in right and left. But to give credit where it is due, it was Alice Miller and Judith Lewis Herman who started the "movement" decades ago before "CPTSD" was ever used to describe it. In the intervening period, authors & books like the following were at least connecting the dots:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
I am so sorry for your pain and for the lies you've had to endure from your nParent/s. It isn't fair and you can't change the past, but you do deserve better. Have you cut down on contact with them? Are you going to hurt yourself? If you feel like you may, please seek help from a medical provider or licensed therapist. If you don't have insurance, please go to an ER.
I am in therapy right now and it is helping with the pain. Have you read this book? I am reading it at the request of my therapist- it's very eye-opening and has been helping me process things and clarify them, as well as heal.
Loved it. It's on one of my books lists:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
First: A list of The Great Books:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD
Then... further suggested resources:
(I used to be able to provide links, but so doing requires a lot of review-&-approval labor by the moderators here, and one can find all of these with good search engines):
1) The Patterns & Characteristics of Codependence on the Codependents Anonymous website;
2) "The Five Stages of Recovery" at pairadocks.blogspot.com to see where one is in them;
3) The "Karpman Drama Triangle" schematic of control strategies in interpersonal relationships;
4) Codependents Anonymous, Adult Children of Alcoholics/Dysfunctional Families and Emotions Anonymous meetings (you can find meeting locators on their websites);
5) "Jiddu Krishnamurti on Loneliness vs. Being Alone" at pairadocks.blogspot.com, further quoting a young Krishnamurti on being alone vs. being lonely;
6) Practicing some thought questioner & mindfulness inducer like the "10 StEPs of Emotion Processing" at pairadocks.blogspot.com, so that one is able to continue to sense what is going on and know what to do about it;
7) Carefully reading the lyrics while listening to Alanis Morrissette's CD / MP3, "Jagged Little Pill";
8) Pia Mellody's book, Facing Codependence;
9) Anne Wilson Schaef's book, Co-Dependence: Misunderstood, Mistreated;
10) Barry & Jane Weinhold's book, Breaking Free of the Codependency Trap;
11) Susan Forward's book, Emotional Blackmail on manipulative relationships;
12) Patricia Evans's book, Controlling People on the same topic;
13) DBT's "FAST" boundary-setting skills set (on DBTSelfHelp.com).
I agree with rapunzel1111 - record if you can, and get used to keeping detailed notes regarding who said what. I have been to several counselors who didn't believe in narcissistic personality disorders (NPD) and proceeded to blame me for the issues in my relationship with Nrents. If you have the ability to select a counselor you want, look for ones that have experience with N-personalities, N-related disorders, or even do an initial meet-and-greet to discover if they have ever counseled anyone else who was victimized by a narcissist (this will also indicate whether or not they believe NPDs exist). Some counselors who are far away are open to Skype or phone sessions.
It's important to recognize that many health professionals don't want to weigh in too early, and many N victims can present issues of their own which may or may not be the same as the N. It's also the difference (at least in the US) between some counselors and actual mental health professionals - professionals (especially those employed by the government) can only make decisions based on behavior they have actually witnessed. We have gone through this with a family member who will act normal when a professional is present.
Anger is a natural reaction to many situations, so start by acknowledging it and allowing yourself to be angry (essentially self-validation). Say, "I'm angry about x. It's ok for me to be angry about x." Be angry, but try to move it in a positive direction by determining why you're angry and what can be done to alter/fix/avoid the same trigger in the future. It's also natural to go through periods of anger as you remember abusive things/actions/situations and process through them.
It's possible to become what you hate, so I would encourage you to not allow anger to simmer or grow into rage. If you haven't already, try journaling as well to help clear your head and ensure you are moving towards healing.
These books are good starting points to help you work through how to best love and forgive yourself while separating from toxic and/or Nrents:
Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life
Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
> I'm on[ly] 19 and i have to hold this whole family together.
Who says? Why are you responsible to rescue a bunch of people who refuse to take care of themselves?
Strongly suggested:
1) Understanding very clearly where all of your family members are on this list of the five stages of therapeutic recovery;
2) A careful study of CoDA's Patterns & Characteristics;
3) Anything on the topic of codependence by Melodie Beattie, Pia Mellody, Anne Wilson Schaef, Barry & Janae Weinhold, Charles Whitfield of Sharon Wegescheider (they're all on the Internet);
4) The Karpman Drama Triangle;
5) CoDA meetings;
6) ACA;
7) The following books:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
8) Every so often rereading this article further quoting a young Krishnamurti on being alone vs. being lonely;
9) The practice of these 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing so that one is able to continue to see what is going on and know what to do about it;
Recommended:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Plus getting on board the Treatment Train:
1) Medications, but only if really needed to get one stabilized enough to do the next six things on this list: Find a board certified psychopharmacologist in your area by using the clinician locator on the Psychology Today website. Getting psych meds from a GP or primary care doc can be useless or even risky. Psych diagnoses, meds and med interactions are just too complex now for most GPs and primary care docs.
2) Support Groups: AA, MA and/or NA if one is using intoxicants to try to cope with emotional pain; ACA, EA and CoDA... where you will find others in similar boats who have found explanations, answers and solutions.
3) Books and academic, professional websites including Mayo Clinic, WebMD, NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health), NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), and even Wikipedia (when everything asserted is solidly documented with citations). Strongly recommended because they all understand the upshots of having been stressed for too long, including complex PTSD which sounds like at least a good possibility here: Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine, Patricia Ogden, Ronald Kurtz, Laurence Heller, Bruce McEwen, Sonya Lupien and Robert Sapolsky. Accurate information is power.
4) Psychotherapy: I currently use Ogden's SP4T as the interoceptive 9th of the 10 StEPs of Emotion Processing to manage any "time bombs" that turn up, but had good results over the years with several of the CBTs including REBT, collegiate critical thinking, schema therapy, and CPT, as well as DBT, MBCT, ACT, MBBT, MBSR, EMDR, HBCP, SEPt, and NARM.
DBT, MBCT, ACT, MBBT and MBSR are terrific for symptom management. EMDR, HBCT, SEPt, SP4T and NARM are first-rate for memory-reprocessing, sense-making and detachment from the conditioning, programming, etc.
To find the clinicians who know how to use these psychotherapies, look here, and here, and here, and (for DBT specialists in particular) here. If you dig a little on each page, you will be able to see which therapies they use. Then interview them as though they were applying for a job with your company. Most MD / psychiatrists, btw, are not therapists themselves (they are medication specialists), but can refer you to those who are, and are often -- though not always -- excellent sources of referral.
5) Mindfulness Meditation: Try the Vipassana-style? (For a lot of people with anxiety, this stuff handles anxiety chop chop. Not sure about depression. Many of the modern psychotherapies for anxiety are actually based on it now.)
6) Therapy Workbooks: I got a lot of lift-off by using inexpensive workbooks like these, and these, and these, and these.
7) Moderate exercise: Because it is the single healthiest of the distractions one can use to yank oneself out of the paradigm for a while... and it can help to "massage" the brain so that it responds more quickly to psychotherapy.
Let's not go to prison for what someone else did.
I will presume you've read some of the books list at the end of this post for the lurkers.
If the following statement resonates for you, and you want to get out of this Matrix, reply to this message.
"If one was regularly ignored, abandoned, discounted, disclaimed, and rejected -- as well as invalidated, confused, betrayed, insulted, criticized, judged, blamed, embarrassed, humiliated, victimized, demonized, persecuted, picked on, dumped on, bullied, scapegoated, and/or otherwise abused -- by others upon whom they depended for survival in early life, AND/OR they are highly stressed by school, work, relationships or other chronic life challenges,...
they may have been in-struct-ed, in-doctrine-ated, programmed, conditioned, socialized and/or normalized to...
beliefs, values, ideals, principles, convictions, rules, codes, regulations and requirements about how we or they (or the world) should / must / ought / have to be...
and then beat themselves up for not being that way."
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
I was regularly battered into submission by parents who I think had been battered into submission by their parents, as well as societal factors beyond their control. They were angry. They only had one child to take it out on. I got pretty scrambled and raised without understanding and functional survival skills. Ultimately, I had to get some, and this was how:
1) Medications, but only if really needed to get me stabilized enough to do the next seven things on this list: After wasting a lot of time with people who didn't know what they were doing, I found a board certified psychopharmacologist in my area by using the clinician locator on the Psychology Today website. I learned the hard way that getting psych meds from a GP or primary care doc can be useless or even risky. Psych diagnoses, meds and med interactions are just too complex now for most GPs and primary care docs.
2) Support Groups: I got into AA, MA and/or NA because I was using intoxicants to try to cope with my emotional pain; and ACA, EA and CoDA... where I found others in similar boats who had found explanations, answers and solutions.
3) Books and academic, professional websites including Mayo Clinic, WebMD, NIMH (National Institute of Mental Health), NAMI (National Alliance on Mental Illness), and even Wikipedia (when everything asserted is solidly documented with citations). Strongly recommended: Alexander Chapman & Kimberly Gratz's The Borderline Personality Disorder Survival Guide: Everything You Need to Know About Living with BPD, and because they all understand the upshots of having been stressed for too long, including underlying complex PTSD which is what I (and most people with BPD) have: Bessel van der Kolk, Peter Levine, Patricia Ogden, Ronald Kurtz, Laurence Heller, Bruce McEwen, Sonya Lupien and Robert Sapolsky. Additional reading:
Nina Brown's Children of the Self-Absorbed: A Grown-Up's Guide to Getting Over Narcissistic Parents
Eleanor Payson's The Wizard of Oz and other Narcissists: Coping with the One-Way Relationship in Work, Love, and Family
Lindsay Gibson's Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents: How to Heal from Distant, Rejecting, or Self-Involved Parents
Elan Golomb's Trapped in the Mirror: Adult Children of Narcissists in the Struggle for Self
Susan Forward's Toxic Parents: Overcoming Their Hurtful Legacy and Reclaiming Your Life (a bit long in tooth now, but still useful) and Emotional Blackmail: When the People in Your Life Use Fear, Obligation, and Guilt to Manipulate You
Kimberlee Roth & Frieda Friedman's Surviving a Borderline Parent: How to Heal Your Childhood Wounds & Build Trust, Boundaries, and Self-Esteem
Accurate information is power.
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